I read a few threads about tokenization, but I have hopefully a quick query.
For those organizations who use tokenization, how many cards do you have tokenized?
We use WorldPay and are trying to make the move to tokenization, which charges by month, by # of cards and they are expensive. I'm trying to gauge how many cards other cultural organizations are tokenizing.
Thank you!
I'm afraid I'm of no use since we use Windcave: as a result we don't even really think about it: we purge tokens only as a PCI issue. The other issue you have with WorldPay is how long they keep your tokens. Our business model is that our season runs from about mid September to the end of June the next year, but sales for that season begin in April, so we could have a customer buy a package one season, say April 2019 for the 2019-20 season, then buy a single ticket in the next season (2020-21) in June of 2021: 22 months apart for what is technically a repeat customer, so we generally like to keep our tokens for two years. I'm not even sure that's an option for WorldPay.
Beyond any customer nuisance, the big question is how refunds are handled in the case of a token no longer existing. We haven't had to worry about that much, but of course a refund can happen for us well over a year after the order.
We're looking at this as well, Mark. To me it only makes sense to tokenize cards used for recurring payments. All other cards don't need to be tokenized and can be purged on a schedule.
Just be sure that WorldPay will keep tokens long enough for your recurring payment schedule. I feel like when we were first looking at this (and on WorldPay) they had some absolute limit on how long tokens were kept that was way under a year.
To clarify, Worldpay's stored card tokens (tokens for credit cards saved on a patron's account) do not expire. Their refund by reference numbers (the transaction ID numbers used to refund originating transactions) only last for 45 days. They are two different data points.
Thanks,
Patrick
Interesting. That's actually the worst order for a performing arts company, but maybe sufferable for a museum or zoo. We would be in trouble every year if refund by reference went away in a month and a half.
Hi Mark. I found this thread as I am now in the same boat you were. What ended up happening with your organization and Worldpay? Did you stick with them or move over to Windcave?
Dot
Wanted to make sure it's in this discussion that most consortiums probably won't be able to tokenize if on WorldPay. “if you are a consortium or are a single organization using multiple Worldpay Account IDs (because you have multiple tax identification numbers), you will be unable to tokenize credit cards and will receive an error if tokenization is attempted. This restriction does not affect users of Windcave (formerly Payment Express) or MasterCard.”
We are nudging our member organizations to Windcave (nudge docs available on request) now so that we can tokenize. The financial world is clearly moving in this direction. By way of example, Worldpay recent announcement they may decline non-EMV transactions https://www.tessituranetwork.com/en/Items/Support/Alerts/2021/triPOS-vx805 There are a few other advantages such as easy refunds via button beyond 45 days, and ticket payment plan plugin for TNEW, but getting with the banking program for security reasons is the main thing with us.
“Note: If your payment processing provider is Worldpay, payments that are older than 45 days cannot be refunded with this functionality and will return an error on authorization.”
Not so clear here, but ticket payment plan plug in does require tokenization https://www.tessituranetwork.com/en/Items/Articles/Web-Products/2019-05-02-TNEW-v7-Payment-Plans-Now-Available#:~:text=Credit%20card%20tokenization%20makes%20future%20payments%20a%20breeze.
Very helpful, John. Thank you.
Fortunately, we are not a consortium, but if what I saw on this thread (+) Worldpay and Online Payment Plans - Tokenization Fees - Online & Mobile - Forums - Tessitura Network about Worlpay's monthly base rate is accurate, we have to look at Windcave. Those fees are out of our scope.
Hello!
We ended up sticking with WorldPay. We are using the CC Tokenization & Deletion Utility to regularly purge and we have a List of "stacked Lists" to EXCLUDE in the Utility. A group of us determined which set of credit cards that we really needed to keep. Our biggest concern is that we have an in-house Membership Auto-renewal program and we could not lose those credit card numbers. I will say that if you can get a manager/supervisor person on the phone at WorldPay and explain your situation, I believe they have some leeway in their pricing tiers to give you some grace - really drive home that you are a non-profit
We have had the same headaches that many of us have with WorldPay outages and cards being charged and not actually completing the circle back in to Tessitura, thus showing no transaction. And we've had double & triple charges - most recently within the last two weeks.
We have contemplated switching to Windcave, but I have heard similar issues, so I'm not sure if one is really better than the other.
Also, I know that switching, including all of our chip n pin devices and everything else involved would be a huge headache to undertake.
I think for the short-term, we are status quo and this is not a challenge that we can tackle at the moment.
Hope this helps some,
-Mark